From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris) Subject: Re: Red wine aid to circulation? Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 Newsgroups: alt.health,sci.med,sci.med.nutrition In <Z3xQNHAM5LxzQA1D@fpga.demon.co.uk> Duncan Crowther <duncan@fpga.demon.co.uk> writes: >I've heard that drinking a glass of red wine a day may have a beneficial >effect on the cardiovascular system. Does anyone know if there is any >merit in this? > >If so, is it simply the effect of the alcohol or is there something else >in red wine which has an influence? It's both. Giving diluted alcohol and nothing else to rabbit models of atherosclerosis causes fewer plaques. But on the other hand, red wine has an extra large effect. Epidemiologic studies also show this: beer and whiskey are pretty neutral, but red wine correlates strongly with decreased cardiovascular risk. White wine also, but less. It's probably the bioflavonoids, which are the stuff in the wines that makes them red (anthocyanins) that does it. Bioflavonoids also some proanthocyanidins, which are not colored, but come from the same sources as the color. Bioflavonoids inhibit platelet aggregation, which is an important step in atherogenesis. That's the presumed mechanism, but nobody knows for sure yet. Steve Harris, M.D. From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris) Subject: Re: Benefits of Red Wine Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition In <19970803195300.PAA11679@ladder01.news.aol.com> dcardar112@aol.com (DCardar112) writes: >I understand that red wine has many benefits regarding arteries and the >heart. I recently picked up that 100% red grape juice (such as Welch's >100% grape juice) has the same or similar benefits. > >I would like any discussions on this as well as how much of each should >be taken daily for any benefits. > >Thanks, Dave C. It doesn't have the same or similar benefits, since the alcohol contributes to the protective effect of wine. And grape juice has only about half the bioflavonoid content. For people who cannot drink alcohol, 10 oz of 100% grape juice will give you about the same bioflavonoid dose as 5 oz of red wine (approx the daily amount associated with the best heart protective effects), but don't expect it to do quite the same job. Steve Harris, M.D. From: sbharris@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris) Newsgroups: sci.med.cardiology,sci.med Subject: Re: atrial fib update Date: 8 Jan 1999 04:30:40 GMT In <3694E07A.9107CD05@erols.com> Terri <vl-hb001@erols.com> writes: >Andrew Chung wrote: > >> hhwayne@cts.com wrote: >> >> > ...the toxic effects of the breakdown >> > products of alcohol (formaldihyde) on the heart muscle... >> >> Ethanol is cardiotoxic (and hepatotoxic and neurotoxic...) in and of >> itself. > >Dr Chung,If alcohol is cardiotoxic why is being pushed as being beneficial >in preventing MI's? Does the vascular benefit outweigh the cardiotoxic risk? > >Terri In some cases, apparently it does. They are different effects with different thresholds. But the alcohol does contribute, as suggested in animal studies of atherosclerosis using ethanol in water with no other flavoring or excipients. Red wine is epidemiologically by far the most effective kind of alcoholic drink, presumably because of the red bioflavonoids which give the stuff its color (anthocyanins, etc). I suspect these have a an antiplatelet effect, since epidemiology has recently shown that even one drink of wine a WEEK has an effect which is a significant size of the maximum benefit (which also occurs up to about one drink a day). From: "Steve Harris" <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition Subject: Re: Red wine / Alcohol Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:46:38 -0700 Message-ID: <a4s468$cln$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> "Martin Banschbach PhD" <mbansch@osu-com.okstate.edu> wrote in message news:a4ruea$9aa1@news.cis.okstate.edu... > > Are there nutrients or combinations thereof or antioxidants that would > > have a similar "health" benefit as is claimed or stated for moderate > > alcohol? > > For HDL, nicotinic acid is going to do a much better job of raising the > good HDL than alcohol does (even with the wine bioflavinoids). Yes, agree. > I know that there has been some discussion (in smn) of what happens if > you take red wine and boil it to remove the ethanol. To be honest, I > don't know if that destroys some of the action of the wine. Ethanol by itself has some interruptive effects on cardiovascular disease in animal models for it, so I suspect that it does also in humans. However, when you try to see it epidemiologically it doesn't show up for beer (which is a wash) and is acutally negative for whisky. I conclude that perhaps these have some bad stuff which makes up for the ethanol. It does show up for white wines, so my guess is it's not just the red stuff there, but the alcohol as well. But it's hard to tell. What we need is some good stats from vodka drinkers. There's no doubt the red stuff in red wine is part of the good stuff, and perhaps most of it. And you can get the same from grape juice (you just have to drink twice as much). Grape juice drinking is a good gambit for alcoholics or those with that in their history, or who can't drink ethanol for health, social, or religious reasons. If 12 oz of grape juice is too much, they make "lite" (no sugar added) liquid grape juice extract in cans, which can be drunk straight instead of dilute. It's potent, and no doubt somewhere about the same as wine. Or better. > I'm sure that many alcoholics abuse wine but the impression that I get is > that beer and hard liquor are the preferred forms, wine, if it is used is > going to usually be a port with as high an alcohol content as possible. I think they mix in sugar to make port, not alcohol. In any case, cheap wine (not port) by the jug is the cheapest ethanol per dollar, so really poor alcoholics, and really cheap physicians, tend to gravitate to that eventually. SBH From: "Steve Harris" <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition Subject: Re: Red wine / Alcohol Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:58:39 -0700 Message-ID: <a4s657$5ii$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> "DRCEEPHD" <drceephd@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020218185055.11700.00001793@mb-mn.aol.com... > >Subject: Re: Red wine / Alcohol > >From: "Martin Banschbach PhD" mbansch@osu-com.okstate.edu > >Date: 2/18/02 4:47 PM Central Standard Time > >Message-id: <a4ruea$9aa1@news.cis.okstate.edu> > > >During fermentation, chemicals are going to come out of the seeds and > >skin that will not apparently come out when grapes are pressed to > >produce juice. > > Uhmmm, a comment. > > Wine is usually made from the liquid that comes from pressing the > grapes. The seeds and skins are discarded. > > How then can the absent seeds and skin impart chemicals? They aren't discarded immediately, for some wines. The longer they're left, the more polyphenols you get. |
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