From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: Bad news for Vioxx users! Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 03:25:51 -0400 Message-ID: <0m0ql01q1pg4hd97sus479htt3ap724lks@4ax.com> On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 06:41:25 GMT, "Madeleine" <madewar@earthlink.net> wrote: >I've heard that the increased risk for Vioxx was 300%, whereas the increased >risk for Celebrex was 25%. Might be worth the risk (Celebrex) for the >quality of life for those who really suffer severely. If I may point out something that seems to be lost in this thread, and to many doctors it seems, these COX 1 inhibitors are only indicated for people who could not tolerate the other NSAIDs because of stomach upset. When these things came out my Dr tried to push them on me to replace what was working just fine (more on that later.) I had no stomach upset so after I did my research I said NO. After proceeding down the road to knee joint replacement far enough to have had the pre-op work done, I chickened out and decided to see if I could find a solution. I found a Stanford U research paper that convinced me of the efficacy of Glucosimine. I tried it and about 6 weeks after starting, I woke up one morning and could walk again without too much pain. It appears to NOT work for about as many people as it helps so no guarantees. After more research and some advice from my bro who's a dentist, I found me a doc who would write a script for what I wanted and tried a combo of Ultram (a non-narcotic, non-addicting opiate analogue) and NSAIDS. It took awhile to find an NSAID that worked, in my case, Aleve (naproxin Sodium). One 20 mg Ultram and 3 Aleves in the AM do me for the whole day. I'm practically pain-free. When I'm going to be on my feet a lot, it's 2 Ultrams in the AM. My doc initially would not believe that this dosing would work. Prescribing instructions call for 2 Ultram up to 4 times a day. For me that was not necessary. My doc, being a little sharper than the average sawbones, learned from me and has told me that this combo has worked very well for other osteo patients. It has also worked for my 80 yr old mom and has kept the hip replacement surgeons at bay for several years now. I've been using this drug combo for about 6 years now with complete success. Now that Ultram is off-patent and available in generic form (Tramadol) it is quite affordable. Though my Xrays still show bone-on-bone contact in my knees, on most days I can walk without any limp. An amazing combo of drugs. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: misc.rural Subject: Re: pain relievers Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 04:21:38 -0400 Message-ID: <4si0g1dmqlq3refbbqmk5durn83ck83nmn@4ax.com> On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:09:36 -0400, Someone <Someone@somewhere.com> wrote: >Neon John <no@never.com> wrote in >news:vpgsf154d90dd5tjejr8ibr2piiod9a9i0@4ax.com: > >> Try Ultram (Tramadol) next time. It's a non-narcotic, non-addicting >> and non-sedating analgesic that has about the same pain killing >> ability gram for gram as oral morphine. > >Unfortunately that's a dangerous statement. > > > "ULTRAM® may induce psychic and physical dependence of the morphine- > type (ì-opioid). (See WARNINGS.) Dependence and abuse, > including drug-seeking behavior and taking illicit actions to obtain > the drug are not limited to those patients with prior history of > opioid dependence." Atually, a little knowledge (and a lot of ignorance) is a dangerous thing. The above statement is lawyer repellant and in fact is false for everyone who does not have a history of opoid dependence. The rest of the story is this. In the recent past (probably >5 years ago), the FDA opened an inquiry into an allegation that Ultram was addictive and caused drug-seeking behavior. At one point, with next to no evidence, the FDA even proposed scheduling the drug. Fortunately science won out over phobias, the allegation was not supported with the evidence and FDA closed the inquiry. As is necessary in many cases these days, McNeil included that warning to repel greedy malpractice lawyers. The word "may" is the key. This word can cover a huge spectrum, from "probable" to "inconceivable but theoretically possible." That word makes the quoted statement technically true but in practice, false. Unfortunately, because of the lawyers and in many cases, the FDA, drug label and insert reading has become an art form. It has become necessary to look beyond the insert for the information necessary to make judgments. Much of the vital info is passed from the drug rep's mouth to the doc's ears, a form that cannot be subpoenaed. That's why we have to include our docs in the search for information. My bro who is a doc alerted me to this tempest in a teapot when it first started. I followed the matter, almost on a daily basis, and commented frequently to FDA, because this is the only drug that I've tried, including narcotics, that lets me go about my day more or less normally. I understand how the vast majority of Rezulin users, those not affected by the side effect that caused a panicked FDA to withdraw it, felt. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: misc.rural Subject: Re: pain relievers Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:22:08 -0400 Message-ID: <3052g1dm2o51lduiq73pvu7pabjhakco0n@4ax.com> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:47:37 -0800, "Christina Peterson" <tinapetrsn@yahoo.com> wrote: >> FYI: I find that Ultram really doesnt do anything for muscle aches and >> pains. Aleve works much better. >> > >So this is mostly for nerve pain? My husband has myofascial syndrome, a >variant of fibromyalgia more common in men. Ultram was one of the better >pain killers for him, but Workers Comp won't make it available to him on a >long term basis. No, not just for nerve pain. Ultram hits the same receptors as morphine and therefore kills pain in a similar manner. No drug works for everyone but for most folks, Ultram is a godsend. I suppose I'm dependent on Ultram like I am insulin. If I don't take it, I can barely walk. But I can and occasionally do stop it cold turkey for a few days just to see how my arthritis is progressing. Other than hurting like hell, no other effects. Generic tramadol is now so inexpensive that most anyone can afford it without insurance. Unfortunately there are still many docs out there with phobias of Tramadol. My manager recently ran into one. She had a gallstone and was in great pain. The doc-in-the-box gave her some vicodins. No relief but they made her sleepy and nauseous. I gave her a couple of tramadol. Complete relief. The doc-in-the-box would not write her a script, preferring to push more ineffectual narcotics on her instead. Idiot. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: misc.rural Subject: Re: pain relievers Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 03:52:48 -0400 Message-ID: <bi53g15a44afjojnp4s73tl0ivl9ul9jif@4ax.com> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:06:29 -0800, "Christina Peterson" <tinapetrsn@yahoo.com> wrote: >Thanks for the info, John. Do you know how it works for fibromyalgia? That >makes some strange changes in body chemistry. I'll check into it,.... but >just in case you know... My ex had pretty bad fibro. A combination of Ultram and Elavil gave her the most relief. No one including her rheumatologist knows why Elavil works (and most/all other antidepressants don't) but it does. I'm convinced that fibro is a manifestation of chronic high stress levels. Her problems started when our financial situation deteriorated after a fire that destroyed our business. She has no problems now but unfortunately the "cure" required her to suffer a nervous breakdown, followed by a compulsion to start a new life elsewhere. I'm glad the zeroing out of the stress cured her problem but I sure miss her. Anyway... She was in a fibro support group. I tagged along on a few sessions and listened. Just about everyone in the group had something that caused severe and chronic stress. Bad marriage, financial troubles, etc. That lends credence to my theory regarding stress. That also may be why Elavil works for many people. > >It sounds like your attitude toward pain is like my husband's. Get rid of >the pain, but don't let it be so distant that you don't know what's going on >with it. Mustn't ignore what your body is telling you. Yeah, pretty much. Ultram works so well for me that I might not know where new damage is setting in unless I let it hurt on occasion. I'm not sure WHY I want to know since there's nothing I can do about it but I do. OTOH, I don't believe it is necessary to suffer chronic pain except in the most extreme cases. Chronic pain does many bad things to the body. When I'm hurting really badly I notice that even cuts and scrapes heal more slowly. I can just imagine what it does that isn't readily apparent to the naked eye. > >I'm dependent on anti-depressants. I've got an organic problem (and >actually my general mental health is better than it's ever been). If I >needed a hip replacement I'd get that. Making proper use medicine is no >worse than wearing dentures or glasses. You got it. Shortly after the fire which I was caught in and almost burned up in, what I learned was chronic stress syndrome put me in the hospital with heart malfunctions and breathing problems. I got REAL lucky in that I got a physician's assistant who had been through a nasty divorce and recognized the symptoms. I got even luckier in that the first drug she tried worked perfectly. Turns out I'd had the problem at one level or another all my life. I thought it to be normal for the flight-or-fight response to go to the peg under even minor stress. After the drug started working it was like "hey, can I now go back and re-live the last 40 years like I am now?" The bitty-bodies and the puritan meddlers and the all-pleasure-is-bad types get all wound up about drugs that cause pleasure, calling them addictive but they have no idea. Yeah, opiates and barbiturates are addictive but frankly, nowhere near that of the mental state altering ones. I could get along without Ultram, though my life would not be very pleasurable but my anti-anxiety drug is absolutely vital. I'd obtain my anxiety drug by whatever means necessary. I'd NEVER go back to the bad old days. Fortunately I've finally found a very enlightened doc who thinks about drug use as I do so I don't have to worry. Such a doc is a resource to treasure. John |
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