From: Steve Harris <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health, alt.health,sci.med.nutrition Subject: Re: Dairy & Allegies Date: 15 Jun 2005 12:01:46 -0700 Message-ID: <1118862106.690096.202610@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> >> I disgree. Cow's milk allergy [or humans having health problems with dairy / cow's milk] is quite common. N.D.s will tell people that the ROOT cause of many cases of ear infections and strep throats is the patient drinking cow's milk. << COMMENT: George, I don't give a lizzard turd what ND's may or may not tell you. You never know if your ND has a degree from Bastyr or got it by mailorder study. And (as in the case of MDs) even the well-educated NDs aren't infallible. What matters is what the scientific studies show. The better-educated NDs use them as the basis of their practice, just like anybody else who competently practices in the healthcare field. Find me the the study which shows ANY evidence of a connection between strep throat and milk drinking. Otherwise, stuff a sock in it, okay? SBH From: Steve Harris <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health, alt.health,sci.med.nutrition Subject: Re: Dairy & Allegies Date: 17 Jun 2005 14:36:39 -0700 Message-ID: <1119044199.723458.238910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> >>I live in Canada where ND's a regulated and many were medical doctors with degrees. They are regulated and tested before being allowed to practice the same as a chem/cut freak.<< COMMENT: Do not generalize-- you don't know enough. Actually, that is true of 4 provinces only in Canada. In the rest of Canada you cannot practice as a naturopath only, unless you restrict yourself to things that wouldn't count as "practice of medicine" under your provincal law.. Anywhere else in Canada other than the 4 provinces (and also in 30-odd US states that don't allow naturopathic practice per se) a naturopathic practitioner would have to legally practice under some other kind of license, in order to practice at all. Some who do that may use the ND initials, which (again) you can get by mail order if you're not going to use that as your primary practice license. It's rather hard to tell if a chiropractor (or an MD for that matter) who also uses "N.D", actually has naturopathic certification that would be recognized by the CNME, or got the ND by mail. It's all far more complicated than you imagine. Here in California we regulate and test our hairdressers. You never know what damage an unregulated cosmetologist might do. The mind boggles at the danger to the public. >>I find your comments insulting, demeaning and very ignorant from a person from a narrowminded profession. << COMMENT: All this while providing wrong information for Canada? If you're going to acuse somebody of being "ignorant" and "narrowminded" you'd better have your facts straight. Otherwise it looks pretty foolish. >>How many seconds of nutritional education did you study in medical school? << COMMENT: Oh, somewhere around 72,000 seconds as I recall. But I learned most of what I know in a fellowship at the post-doc level, where I carried out and published a number of nutritional studies on rodents and humans, and published four of them, incluiding one on nutrition in Biosphere II that ran in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. And you, Pizzagirl? SBH From: Steve Harris <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health, alt.health,sci.med.nutrition Subject: Re: Dairy & Allegies Date: 17 Jun 2005 14:56:28 -0700 Message-ID: <1119045388.799613.171550@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <<Most ND's have more education than MD's and also open minds.<< So open that their brains are in danger of falling out, if they get into homeopathy. But I digress. Most naturopaths (unlike the Alternative Medicine Practitioners which actually also exist as a licensed profession in some places) do NOT much get into homeopathy. I have quite a lot of respect for the well-trained naturopath who respects science and the scientific method, and I regard the CNME accredited naturopath who keeps a mechanistic biochemical outlook as being next after MDs, DOs, nutritionists, etc in science-based health care practice. If naturopaths suffer from more difficulty in providing scientific justification, some of the blame is not to be found in their philsophy, but in the poverty of relevent non-drug related research, which is not the fault of the naturopath, but rather of the politician and the public (since we do live in democracies in the West). I've lifted/stolen/borrowed a lot of interesting stuff from naturopathic training texts, of which I own several, for use in my own practice. Imitation is the sincerest flattery. Not alternative health care is of the same quality! After accredited naturopaths, you start getting into people who stick needles in people and crack their spines, and it all starts to get murky. And as soon as your practitioner starts to talk about chakras, prana, qi, energy healing and homeopathy, they've totally lost it and are now into religion and frank quakery. As for whether or not the average naturopath is better educated than the average physician, that's subject to quantitative argument. I challenge you to defend it. SBH From: Steve Harris <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids.health, alt.health,sci.med.nutrition Subject: Re: Dairy & Allegies Date: 20 Jun 2005 17:56:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1119315381.086572.137050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> >>I have read more than 20 hours of nutritional documents. I rest that case. I see the medical education community there has improved from 20 seconds to 20 hours. I doubt that has happenned here yet. << COMMENT: Excuse me? That was formal "classroom instruction by experts" time. If you're going to go by reading time of nutrition papers and texts you need to have done thousands of hours. Most of my own reading time has been scientific papers and abstracts. I see I have accumulated >100 texts and popular books on nutrition and alternative medicine, but it's a minor part of my medical library and a minor part of my nutrional education. Half of it is crap, but I have to read this stuff to see what the public is reading. As I said, the biggest problem of alternative types is what they THINK they know. Some nut who thinks vitamin E is the answer to heart disease (Canadian). Some other nut who thinks you can cure most diseases by drinking enough water. People who think you can slow aging by taking enough vitamins. A pair of doofuses named Diamond who believe in "food combining." Eating for your blood type. Homeopathy. Chinese food cures and TCM. The Atkins books, the Ornish book. the Walford books, the Zone diet crap. The Balch texts as intro to naturopathy. etc, etc., etc. Makes me tired just to look at it. >>In Ontario, anyway, you cannot be an ND and an MD. Some have tried practicing ND skills while being an MD and been chastised for it losing their MD licence for "Unconventional methods" despite their technique success for many patients. << COMMENT: According to CNME, Ontario is one of 4 provinces that license NDs to practice as naturopaths. I see no reason a medical student studying for an MD could not practise under a valid ND license, as recognized in Ontario. Whoever you're talking about must have had a mailorder ND degree, or in some other way failed to satisfy Ontario law. If you care to cite a specific case in the news I can be proven wrong. Otherwise I'm just going to assume that you're your usual fountain of misinformation. SBH |
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