From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: How to get rid of ants Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:59:39 -0400 Message-ID: <q4pr84drgjon7j74ittl3ktn5ivmf479bf@4ax.com> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:00:41 -0500, MTV <volztexas355@comcast.net> wrote: >http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/ants.htm > >We've have very good results with the Maxforce ant gel. > Funny that this would come up now. I've been doing a long term research project up here in Green Cove based on a research paper I found last spring that dealt with controlling German yellow jackets. The area has been invaded with German yellow jackets (nests above ground and are meat eaters instead of sweets). What the locals call "piss ants" (tiny red stinging ants) have also become a serious problem. The research paper addressed the use of Fipronil, a very long delayed acting poison, to control yellow jackets. The procedure was to have a group of grad students walk shoulder to shoulder across a large, multi-acre mixed field and wooded area, finding and counting yellow jacket nests (such is the life of a grad student :-) Next bait stations were prepared and set out at intervals around the area. In a month, the walk was repeated. All nests within about a 500 yard radius of each station were wiped out. In fact, the entire survey area was almost clear of nests. Based on that and based on the degree of infestation here (every other deck seemed to have a nest under it), I decided to set up my experiment. Most everyone is familiar with Fipronil but don't know it. It's the active ingredient in FrontLine flea control product. Grossly over-priced, of course. I didn't know whether all the yellow jackets were American or German so for each bait station I set up two baits, one was cherry preserves and the other canned cat food. To about 100 grams of each I added the amount of FrontLine that would cling to the tip of a toothpick. (sorry, no micropippets available) I added a touch of water and made a thick slurry. In one location I set up a camera and time lapse timer and photographed the bait every 5 minutes over a 2 day period. I never saw more than 2 yellow jackets on the cat food and none on the preserves. That was enough. Bottom line - the Green Cove area is now almost completely yellow jacket-free. The other residents think that I did some sort of FM :-) Back to ants. There has been a piss ant colony under the general store for years. They emerge from one crack or the other every so often and raid the garbage or the sweets aisle. Royal PITA. Based on the yellow jacket success, I set up another experiment. This time I used honey diluted with water so as not to be so sticky as to trap the ants. I dipped just a little more than the tip of a round toothpick in FrontLine and mixed it in the honey-water and put the mixture on a shallow foam saucer that had the rim cut down so that the edge almost touched the floor. Within a day the ant were on that bait like stink on ... Well, you know :-) It's been about 2 weeks and all evidence is that the colony is gone. I've set up more honey bait stations outside where ants have been seen in the past and they've been ignored. No ants visible. I'm ready to declare success. What is unique about Fipronil is that it has no odor or taste in the concentration used. According to the research paper, yellow jackets are very particular and are repelled my most other insecticides. FrontLine is obscenely expensive but Fipronil is available in large quantities for much more reasonable prices. I have some of this currently on order: http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/termidor-sc-p-184.html?gclid=CLWtj87hn5QCFQlqsgo I'll be testing it to make sure none of the inert ingredients repel yellow jackets. Fipronil is available in higher concentrations as a planting-time worm control insecticide used with corn. Nominally, a pesticide license is required to buy it, though I've found out that this is only a small obstacle. This chemical highlights EPAs irrational pesticide rules. In the form of FrontLine, the stuff is put ON your pet INSIDE your house. In the form of Termidor (about the same concentration) the labeling SCREAMS not to use it indoors. I have a feeling that this might just be one of the best long persistence roach killers around. I'm going to find out. One of the roach gels has Fipronil in it (Combat, I think but can't recall) but I'm looking at something that I can spray the baseboards with. The roach gel dries out within a month and becomes useless. When the Termidor arrives, I'm going to be testing it with a yellow jacket attractant, the little capsules that come with those yellow yellow jacket traps. That should draw them in from much farther away than mere cat food. Before I forget, many thanks to my friend Bruce Bowen who turned me on to the paper. More info on german vs American yellow jackets. http://www.cisr.ucr.edu/german_yellowjacket.html John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: How to get rid of ants Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:42:05 -0400 Message-ID: <4cis84hnbrrg7hfuktk739494h2sqapamo@4ax.com> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:25:17 -0500, Bob Giddings <bobg@escapees.com> wrote: >On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:59:39 -0400, Neon John <no@never.com> >>When the Termidor arrives, I'm going to be testing it with a yellow jacket >>attractant, the little capsules that come with those yellow yellow jacket >>traps. That should draw them in from much farther away than mere cat food. >> >>Before I forget, many thanks to my friend Bruce Bowen who turned me on to the >>paper. >> >>More info on german vs American yellow jackets. >> >>http://www.cisr.ucr.edu/german_yellowjacket.html >> >>John > >What happens if one of your pets ingests it? Considering that I put FrontLine on my cats every month during the summer and FrontLine has about the same concentration of Fipronil as the Termidor, and considering how much they lick themselves, nothing happens. The FrontLine patent describes the process of the carrier material spreading the Fipronil all over the animal's body within a day or so, so the kitties certainly ingest it. Judging by the MSDS LD50/rat numbers, if this stuff wasn't labeled an "insecticide", it could be labeled non-toxic to warm blooded beings, given that the rats have to practically drown in the stuff. Incidentally, the secret carrier material in FrontLine seems to be propylene glycol. That's what it feels and tastes like (yeah, I live on the edge, tasting the tips of toothpicks containing poison :-) and its properties match the description given in the patent. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: How to get rid of ants Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:20:43 -0400 Message-ID: <f5mu84p559i7emfkdsbh2bj080q23dhbmt@4ax.com> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:31:46 -0700, "Technobarbarian" <Technobarbarian-ztopzpam@gmail.com> wrote: > It looks like the biggest problem with this idea isn't pets--it's bees. >All of the government approved formulations combine the Fipronil with >something that isn't attractive to bees or call for it to be used in ways >that aren't likely to affect bees. Mixing Fipronil with a sweet bait could >cause problems for neighbors with bee hives or any nearby commercial bee >activity. It's been a long time since I've seen anyone more desperate to criticize my work, no matter how far the reach. Like a no-see-um. Mildly annoying but otherwise invisible. Get a life, dude. As for bees, the paper addresses that. They designed their bait traps with holes too small for the bees to enter. Up here honey bees are rare to non-existent. It appears that bumblebees do the pollinating. I haven't seen a honeybee this high in the mountains in many years. In any event, my time lapse photography showed no bees at all on the preserves. In fact, no insects at all other than a couple of flies. Since I know that I'm dealing with German yellow jackets, there will be no more need for sweet bait in the future. Your "fear" is assuaged. >France has banned Fipronil because of problems it caused for bees. Impressive that the man can use Google. That wouldn't be the first stupid thing the french have done, now would it? >Off label use of pesticides is also illegal in this country. >http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/7/usc_sec_07_00000136---j000-.html Oh my. I'm an outlaw. Wow. I imagine that the average person breaks dozens of federal regs every day so I'm in good company. I won't be losing sleep... I guess you missed my little editorial about the idiocy of EPA labeling rules. > I've gotten good results controlling Yellow Jackets with a simple trap >like this one, using the water from canned tuna fish for the bait: >http://www.amazon.com/Victor-M362-Quart-Yellow-Jacket/dp/B001A3QDBQ To use an old James Bond line, I'm not interested in controlling them. I'm interested in killing them. I can't imagine that thing even controlling them. From the paper, the nests they took census of contained from 2500 to over 15,000 insects. How many do you catch at a time, a couple hundred? In a large nest that many die naturally every day. You're not even scratching the surface. Worse, you're actually attracting them to the area with your dead fish bait. If you don't have the trap near your outdoor activity then you're not affecting the scouts that come around you. A lose-lose situation. Those traps give the illusion of control but they don't. Traps like these http://www.killsbugsdead.com/fop_d_y_t.asp sprout around the RV parks up here like weeds. If anything, they probably encourage more yellowjackets to nest in the area. If you're happy with your "control" then more power to ya. Here, we're tickled spitless by the almost total absence of yellow jackets. It's actually pleasant to have an outdoor picnic again. John |
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