From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Fresh Water Tank Perforation Repair
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:46:52 -0400
Message-ID: <s1aj709m399c2f2rfebtnnhgefshftqtu5@4ax.com>

On 10 Apr 2004 19:42:56 -0700, trmitchell@hotmail.com (Tom Mitchell) wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>We are beginning full-timers just starting our tour, and have already
>run into a major challenge. Has anyone had any luck repairing a
>perforated fresh water tank?

If you want to fix this tank so you can use it while you're getting
satisfaction from CW, the task is fairly simple.  Assuming the hole is a small
one caused by a sheet metal or drywall screw and that it is accessible, all
you have to do is melt a small area around the hole and work the plastic back
together.  It will weld into a perfectly solid mass.  In fact, that is
probably what any repair shop will do.

Find a small butane mini-torch.  Preferably one with a hot air attachment.
Walmart has one without the hot air attachment for about $25.  It comes with a
soldering tip.  The procedure (assuming you don't have a hot air tip) is to
turn the flame down very low and gradually heat the plastic in about an inch
diameter around the hole. Hold the torch back so that the flame does not
impinge the plastic and singe it. Concentrate more heat in the center.  The
plastic will turn clear and liquid, the hotter the thinner. Have some sort of
rod (old screwdriver, for instance) handy.  When the clear puddle has some
depth (but not enough to run), use the rod to poke the plastic over the hole
from all sides.  Alternate pushing and smoothing with the heat.  Pucker up the
plastic over the hole just a little.

After the plastic has been built up over the hole, it is necessary to melt it
in and smooth it.  Back the torch up some more so that the heating is
relatively gentle.  Have a wet rag handy.  heat the plastic gently so that the
melt penetrates almost to the other side. If it starts to run (assuming a
vertical surface) push it back up with the wet rag.  This will freeze the
plastic in place.  One has to develop somewhat of a touch.  Ultimately you
want the location of the hole smooth, with little to no sign that it was
there.  You may not be able to achieve perfection on a vertical surface but
that doesn't really matter other than for appearances.  When the plastic is
like you want it, press the wet rag against it to freeze it in place.

This is a quick procedure that takes less time than it did for me to type
this.  If you don't want to attempt it yourself, most any body shop will have
a plastic welder.  Used primarily to fix broken plastic bumpers, this is a kit
consisting of a hot air wand and filler sticks of the different types of
thermoplastic plastics commonly used.  With the proper hot air wand the weld
should take no more than 10 minutes.

You should not view this as a "repair" that makes the tank inferior to a new
one.  Plastic welding literally makes it the same as new.  That spot will be
the same as it was before puncture.  In fact, the odds are that the water
fittings are welded to the tank using a similar procedure.  I would NOT risk
the damage to your rig involved in removing that tank to install a new one.
The old tank will be perfectly fine after the hole is welded shut.

>
>On April 2, as our first stop, we had Camping World at Reines RV in
>Manassas, VA install a Xantrex Freedom 2500 inverter in our new
>Carriage Cameo 5th wheel. They blundered, running 2" screws through
>the front 5/8" bulkhead, puncturing the 60-gal tank. The front
>compartment, and the Xantrex, were under 2" of water when we found the
>damage.

I would certainly expect a new Xantrex.  But you might be able to get the old
one to function until you get the new one by thoroughly drying it.  Suspend a
hair dryer so that it blows in the vents.  Set it on high and let it run for
24 hours.  It will take that long to back out the coils.  If you're lucky you
can simply turn it back on at that point and have it work.  If not, nothing
other than time lost.

>
>We are camped in Bull Run Park about 3 miles from Reines ) Camping
>World, and although the Service Manager has promised 3 times to come
>and assess the damage, each day he has left us waiting. Reines )
>Camping World has stonewalled our follow-up calls. We have already
>been delayed looping on this for a week, and now we believe it is
>unrealistic to expect any responsive help from Reines ) Camping World
>(so much for customer service and guaranties!)

You're not going to be able to do this from afar.  You're going to have to
present that RV to the manager in his parking lot.  That's just human nature.
He's going to hope you go away until you get his attention, front row and
center.

>This has been a very disappointing start to our long-planned CONUS
>tour, but we are working our way through it. The support of you fine
>folks is greatly appreciated.

Try not to get yourselves in a lather.  This is part of full-timing and in the
big scope of things, rather minor.  Losing a wheel or two and having the
sparks from the dragging axle set your rig on fire, now THAT's serious.  It'll
take awhile to transition into the minimally structured lifestyle of
full-timing.  Just record this in your log book so you can entertain
yourselves reliving it in years to come.  I'm confident CW will take care of
you.  Just a matter of getting their corporate attention :-)

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Fresh Water Tank Perforation Repair
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:22:40 -0400
Message-ID: <3d6j70llahkfp1o0dco6gg80shsn6goshm@4ax.com>

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 07:48:46 GMT, phil willen <irphil@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Unless they have changed their policy, CW has a lifetime warranty
>on any installation they do.  I think the problem may be that they
>are franchising RV dealers to be Camping Worlds.  Calling CW is
>the way to go.  If they won't help, send a letter to the owner stating
>that you will have it repaired at their expense as well as all living
>expenses entailed.  I would CC the states attorney general and
>several RV magazines.  The CC's are very attention getting.

That last part would be a very dumb thing to do.  CW corporate will likely
bend over backwards to remedy this problem and the problem with the store
manager.  Making a media event instantly makes it an adversarial situation.
In that light I'd expect CW to do only what the letter of their agreement
required.  He would surely lose.  At a minimum the peace that is lost when an
adversarial relationship is established.  At worst, a "so sue me" attitude.
Or losing the extras CW is likely to include to make him a happy camper.

Calling in the media is, IMHO, the last-ditch thing to do when negotiations
have failed.  Like many last ditch things, it usually doesn't work but at that
point it doesn't hurt to try.

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Fresh Water Tank Perforation Repair
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:30:33 -0400
Message-ID: <vpnj70dqhia89j7m1c0ceq4sroobom8mpd@4ax.com>

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 22:43:25 GMT, GBinNC <GBinNC@yahoooo.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:46:52 -0400, Neon John
><johngdDONTYOUDARE@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>If you want to fix this tank so you can use it while you're getting
>>satisfaction from CW, the task is fairly simple.  Assuming the hole is a small
>>one caused by a sheet metal or drywall screw and that it is accessible, all
>>you have to do is melt a small area around the hole and work the plastic back
>>together.
>
>Could be. But in his original post, he said, "The tank is wedged into
>a glove-tight 5/8" plywood compartment and cannot easily be removed."

Thank you, GB for helping me with my reading.  May I call on you if I need
other help, say, with unstopping a drain?

As maybe the only one in this group to do so, I do my best to answer the
actual question asked in this case, "We are beginning full-timers just
starting our tour, and have already run into a major challenge. Has anyone had
any luck repairing a perforated fresh water tank?"  That was the first
paragraph, as my reading assistant, something I would have thought you would
have noticed.

He didn't ask anyone to speculate on the accessability or difficulty.  It may
be that the panel the screw was run through is easily removed.  I neither know
nor care. He asked only whether anyone had experience fixing a punctured tank.
I have and I offered him the benefit of my experience.

There are other, less permanent methods of plugging the hole. Coating the
threads of a stainless steel sheet metal screw with RTV or polyurethane caulk,
then screwing it tightly into the hole.  Or screwing in a sheet metal screw
and then heating it with a soldering iron until the plastic melts and bonds to
the screw.  Or plugging it with a tubeless tire plug.  All will work; none are
as permanent as doing it correctly the first time, particularly since most of
the work will probably involve preparing the work site.

One bit I forgot to add in my previous post.  You can practice this technique
on a 5 gallon plastic bucket.  that plastic contains more filler and won't get
as thin as the plastic on the water tank but it is nonetheless very good
practice.  I do plastic repair so seldom that I usually will freshen up my
skills on a bucket before proceeding.

I guess I can't figure out the purpose of your post, GB.  To prove that you
can nit-pick better than anyone else?  So desperate to post that you don't
really care about the content?  You added nothing to this conversation of a
constructive nature.  So what WAS the purpose of your post?

I really am curious why you and a few others do this kind of stuff.  It really
distracts from the pleasure of interacting with other RVers.  Maybe it IS some
sort of attention craving disorder.

John