From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: Battery question Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 04:41:00 -0400 Message-ID: <ljsnc3hbb45m5jfb71b3j0djhb9nu6mfeu@4ax.com> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 03:25:58 -0400, bill horne <redydog@rye.net> wrote: >I've had numerous WalMart batteries, and haven't had a problem with >any of them. Yet. But I have a neighbor up the road who has had your >experience. He gets nearly apoplectic when I mention Walmart batteries. Chattanooga area Walmart and Sam's seem to have changed vendors or something, for I've had two recent bad experiences in contrast to previous satisfactory results. The last bad experience is still underway until I can get back to a Sam's and get rid of 'em. I put a pair of 8D diesel cranking batteries on my cube van to replace the OEM (8 yr old) batteries. The new batteries spin the starter even slower than the old ones. This is one instance where I got bit by going cheap. $30 more a battery would have gotten me FreightLiner batteries which kick ass. Four of 'em spun that big 13 liter engine in my semi truck like it was a car engine. I bought a 120 amp-hour AGM battery from Outdoor World to use as the house battery in my semi truck. I'm fairly impressed with it. Very low impedance. Runs a 750 watt inverter at nearly full load until nearly discharged. It's a chicom-made battery private labeled for Outdoor World. Mom's geezer scooter has a pair of identical batteries but with the Chicom branding. This is the type that uses screw-in caps similar to wet cells but with the caps sealed with gobs of epoxy. I broke the seals on this one to observe the electrolyte level just in case I ever have to water it (glass mat sopping wet with a little free electrolyte on top at full charge .) I've had to water mom's batteries several times thanks to the crappy charger. They're 5+ years old and still going strong despite the abuse from the charger. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: deep cycle 6 and 12 volt Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:45:12 -0500 Message-ID: <jfp9l3h8gsuae1a1hquiufjk8vnjmvoc41@4ax.com> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:22:52 -0500, John Andrews <andrewsjp@chartertn.net> wrote: >Everybody needs to understand that all batteries are local. >These things are heavy and shipping them long distances is >unrealistic. All battery vendors buy from relatively local >manufacturers. See: http://www.batteryfaq.org/ That's one of those net.myths that contains elements of truth. It's probably true that many brands of consumer grade batteries are made in the same plant, it is NOT a universal truth. Fer'instance, the Hawker plant a couple of miles from my old home in Cleveland makes ONLY Hawkers. During my year of truck driving I hauled several loads of batteries from the mexican border to places in Indiana and surrounds. But let's look at this from another angle. Suppose I operate a contract food canning company. If I run a gourmet soup for Fresh Market in the morning and some rot-gut meat-byproduct stew for Save-a-Lot in the evening, can any general quality conclusions be formed? I make the FM product to their spec and the S-A-L to theirs. Polar opposites of quality but they're both "soup" and they both came from my factory. Exactly the same thing applies to batteries. I know for a fact that Wallyworld's specs are among the lowest in the industry, barely better than the fly-by-night remans. Even this is changing. China now owns the AGM and Gel markets, almost regardless of the brand name, a few like Hawker excepted. I expect "made in china" to show up on Wallyworld and other low end brands in the near future. All that scrap lead that they're buying has to go somewhere. > >Now tell me again that Wal*mart and Sam's Club are pure garbage. OK. Can do. Wal*mart batteries are the scum of the earth. Sam's batteries are lower middle class. They are down significantly from what they were 4 or 5 years ago, at least in my experience. Used to they offered a great value. Nowadays the quality spread between their stuff and quality brands like Hawker and Trojan makes their premium prices the better values. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: New Converter Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 23:54:48 -0400 Message-ID: <rbh724lhfu33pjng3vcqjicspvm79760up@4ax.com> On Thu, 8 May 2008 22:07:03 -0400, "tim fm ct" <r.dolan@snet.net> wrote: >Tom, > They clearly say deep cycle in the printed brochure. BTW they also >have a Deep Cycle 27DC-6 that has 115max amp hr and sells for even less. >Would that be better. > Tim fm CT Tim, my experience with the Wallyworld house brand (EverStart) has been very poor, both cranking and deep cycle batteries. When Wallyworld quit carrying "native" name brand batteries and started house labeling cheap sh*t batteries is when things went to crap. When they sold Stowaway batteries, they were fine. If you're not going to go for a premium deep cycle battery like Trojan, Surette, Hawker, etc., my recommendation is the Group 29 deep cycle battery that Sam's club sells. I've had consistently good results. Allegedly Sam's uses different manufacturers in different regions but all I've ever seen in the South has been Exide. I'm not a tremendous fan of Exide but in this case, the product is a good bang for the buck. I forgot to check the price last week when I was at Sam's but typically they run in the $75 range. Given the skyrocketing price of metals including lead, you need to be aware that the low end manufacturers and big box retailers are cutting the lead content for a given size battery. Perhaps they've figured out how to make plates out of lead foil. Or perhaps they're lying about capacity. I recently needed a Group 27 deep cycle battery in a hurry. An Autozone was the closest store. Their "Group 27" (sic) weighed less than half what my trade-in weighed. I decided to drive a bit farther to a NAPA store. Since then I've been checking battery weight with my Mk 1 fingertips :-) every chance I get. Every one I've tested in a big box store has "gone lite". With the price of lead doubling (or more) in the last year, to maintain about the same prices, something's gotta give. I bought a set of 3 Group 29s at Sam's last fall for my MH. Same weight as usual and the performance is still satisfactory. Apparently Sam's isn't cheapening the product like wallyworld is. Back to your original problem. I'm suspicious of your entire bank dropping to 10 volts simultaneously. That sounds more like one battery losing a cell and the others having back connections. I suggest charging and testing each battery individually. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: Batteries Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:08:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3upb4498j9jfm8iqrv2400dhk7lu46s1sd@4ax.com> On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:17:15 -0700, "oso-mike" <oso-mike@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >NO? So what would you recommend? >I don't have room for 2 6V btrys. I would like a maintenance free 12V. I'm very pleased with the Sam's club/Exide Group 29 deep cycle batteries. My little rig currently has 3, soon to be 5, under one dinette seat. Walmart used to carry name brand batteries like Stowaway but since they've gone to their house brand, the quality has evaporated. I purchased one "everlast" or whatever it is that they call it. Emergency situation, late at night, getting ready for a car trip. I took it back for a refund a few weeks later. New out of the store, it would barely turn over my little 350 V8, something that my start pack that contains a 17amp-hour AGM does with vigor. Sam's club has so far stayed with good brand names. You REALLY REALLY don't want a maintenance free battery. "maintenance free" means "designed end-of-life". A MF battery still uses water, just not as much. Unless your charger abuses it, of course. The difference is, you can't add water to an MF battery. Unless you pry open the lid, of course. When it runs out of water, you buy a new battery. With a good charger/converter (PD Intellipower/charge wizard or Iota for example), watering a wet battery is at most, a semi-annual affair. If that's a problem or space constraints require the battery to be mounted off-level then you'll want to spend the extra money on an AGM battery. Larger and heavier and about half again as much money as a wet battery but totally maintenance free. Also more vulnerable to overcharge damage. A smart charger/converter is almost a must. I have a 120 amp-hour AGM trolling battery that I bought at Outdoor World. I forget who made it but it's a major quality brand. I use it in my vehicles other than my RV to run my Engel portable refrigerator/freezers. Only bad parts are that it cost around $140 and it's almost too heavy for one person to carry. If you want a VERY high quality battery (with price to match), take a look at the Hawker/Enersys Odyssey line. This is a deep cycle AGM battery that has a low enough internal impedance to also be a starting battery. That characteristic is also handy if you want to run a high powered inverter from a single battery. This is, IMO, the best battery available to the consumer market by a long shot. http://www.odysseyfactory.com/ John |
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