From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: 87 Toyota Mini-Winnie? Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:38:00 -0400 Patrick O'Grady wrote: > Hi, > > I've been shopping for a Toyota-chassis RV for some time now, and I'm > looking at two: a 1987 Winnebago with the 22RE fuel-injected engine, an > auto tranny, and no air conditioning, air shocks, or air bags; and an '84 > Dolphin with the 22R carb'd plant, 4-speed manual, cab air, coach swamp > cooler and air-bag-enhanced suspension. > > The Winnie's EFI has more power, and its coach is in better condition, > with the rear bath/shower setup I prefer, but the unit has 150,000 miles > on it. The Dolphin's cab and coach are pretty beat up -- a family lived in > it for a spell -- and it has the bathroom behind the driver's seat. But > it's only got 50,000 miles. > > Prices are comparable -- $5500 for the Winnie, $4,500 for the Dolphin -- > and frankly, I'm stuck. The Winnie looks better, but I don't want to be > walking across the desert after a breakdown, and my wife wants a swamp > cooler or air conditioning. My '83 longbed Toyota has 250K on the > odometer, but it hasn't been dragging a coach around with it. I'd ignore the odometer and buy the rig that I liked. Here is my reasoning. * On a Toyota engine, the mileage isn't that high. If it doesn't use oil and the compression on all cylinders is OK, then that would be the end of my concerns. A quick check of engine balance is to remove the coil wire and crank the engine while listening. If the cranking sound is smooth, then the engine is probably OK. If the starter speeds over one cylinder, then that one either has bad rings or valves or a valve is stuck/out of adjustment. These heavy duty iron blocks on the japanese engines (toyota and datsun/nissan) are tough as nails. I routinely see 200k on these engines. I have a Datsun Z (engines are similar internally) that I bought new in '75 that has 360k miles on it and is still running well. * The EFI protects the engine from wear during abnormal conditions. This is a little-appreciated aspect of EFI but is the major reason modern engines last so long. There is no cylinder wall washdown during cranking, no flooding, no hot weather leaning or any of the other stuff that carburetors cause. * You'll probably spend much more time in the house than behind the wheel. Get what you like in the coach first. * You can add AC to the house for oh, $500 if you can install it yourself. My experience with a Keystone MH built on the Toyota chassis is that a roof-top AC and generator will provide enough cooling that the lack of dash AC isn't a big deal. If it becomes a big deal, backfitting factory AC using salvage yard parts isn't difficult. * If the engine eventually does wear out, replacing it with a salvage yard engine is easy and cheap. And because the engine is so tough, finding a good engine with relatively low mileage is easy. * Fixing up a beat-up house is a lot more expensive and a lot more hassle than repairing or replacing an engine. It would be reasonable to assume that if the cosmetics are beaten up, then perhaps the support systems (electrical, water, sewage) and structural items are too. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: Cost of doing business?? For older RV's Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:26:27 -0400 Deborah Tucker wrote: > One thing I've learned from reading this newsgroup is that replacing an > older RV with a newer one is certainly no guarantee of a problem-free > situation. How do people decide when it's time to stop putting money > in, and make a change? I ask all this because we really like our RV's > layout (78 25' Southwind, 2 dinettes), lots of bugs worked out, but > surely more to come over time. I'd say that it depends on your temperament more than anything else. If you're the type who has to out-Jones the Joneses, then a new RV every year or so is the norm. OTOH, if you like to get comfortable with your environment and DON'T need to keep up with the Joneses, then there's no logical reason to get rid of an old RV that is reliable as long as there are no structural problems such as fatigue cracking in the frame. I'm of the later type. I still have the second car I ever bought (we won't talk about the first one!) When I bought my motorhome, I bought it for the long term. I've probably spent much more money getting it like I want it than I could get out of it but I'm happy. I didn't buy the thing based on what I could get when I sold it. I bought it to enjoy. I don't believe in credit so I save for my purchases. If you use credit, the same principle below will work for you, substituting "payment" for "saving". I put aside a fixed amount of savings each month into a fund for luxuries, typically for a new RV but perhaps for a new car if I find a 59 Caddy I like :-). I base this amount on my calculation of what a monthly payment would be on a rig in my price range. The difference is, I GET the interest instead of paying it. I pay for RV repairs and upgrades from this fund. I have an arbitrary threshold of 50% of my monthly contribution to this fund. If my maintenance/repair expenses exceed this amount on a regular basis, then it's time to consider a new RV. This is the same logic/procedure I use with my cars. One thing that comes out in this analysis is just how much money one tosses to the banker with a new vehicle and just how many repairs one can make to equal a new vehicle. For example, a $100k rig for 15 years at 10% interest produces a monthly payment of $1,078.61. Call it $1100. I can do a LOT for $1100!. One month's payment would buy a fine high end inverter. Three months would buy a new generator. For three months' payment I can buy a brand new crate motor from Chevy. Add a couple more months and I can (heaven forbid, in my case) pay someone to install it. For 5 months' payments I can have the whole exterior redone with epoxy paint and custom graphics. (to get rid of those hideous 70s and 80s colors and graphics!) I had all the upholstery and carpet replaced in my rig for under $500 (very cheap but then I shopped :-) Now the fabric is what my wife wanted and not that of some factory designer more worried about cost than looks and durability. Some folks would claim that I'm wasting money on an old rig. I see it otherwise. I have my rig customized almost exactly like I want it. I have a custom bed that fits my 6'7" frame. I have 300 amp-hours of battery capacity, a 175 amp alternator and a large inverter. I have a refrigerator with NO electronics to go bad or quit working if the house battery dies. I have custom shelves in the cabinets to hold exactly the stuff WE (as opposed to the factory designer's notion) want to carry. I have the engine tuned where I want it. I have a large, oversized vehicle air conditioning system fitted because I like to be COLD, not cool, in the summertime. I have custom-made gaseous discharge tube (neon) lighting inside and out that produces lovely light and never wears out. I have a full power microwave oven in the rig instead of the whimpy little 600 watt units most mfrs install. In short, the rig is now customized almost exactly like I want it. The analogy to hotrodding is exact. I can't stand the notion of a factory-stock car and I love the way the old cars drive and ride. If you like your rig the way it is, then by all means keep it. Keeping it running is a LOT cheaper than buying a new rig even if you have to pay someone to do the work. Start putting those "payments" in a mutual fund and let 'em start earning interest. Then, after you get a couple hundred thou in the bank and you see a rig you just can't live without, wellll...... An amazing thing is, I find that rolling out $10k or so in cash (can't really tell how much is there without counting when you get that much in one pile.) tends to make both the salesman's knees and the price get all wobbly :-) John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: Cheap RV travel,good idea? Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:37:15 -0400 default wrote: > Im from the UK, and myself and three friends are going to travel across > the US for 3 months, and are considering buying a cheap RV for about > $4000 to do this. Is this a good idea or not? > I have RVed before, and know my way around an engine but need some good > advice. > Could anyone recommend a model of RV that has a good reputation, as I > have looked through the classifieds and it looks like the RV will be a > 1970-80 model. > Any links to good websites would also be appriciated, and please as > many replies a possible. While I'm a big fan of buying well-cared-for older rigs and fixing them up to like-new condition, I think that this would be a bad idea for you. You're going to be in a foreign place with strange customs, without a home base where you can bring your rig to in order to work on it. You WILL work on it. On a 20 or 30 year old rig, you will replace everything that wears and everything that has a polymer that moves. This means all rubber under the hood in the case of a motorhome, the water pump, valves, hinges, window seals and so on. For someone who has a base to work from, this isn't a big deal because most of the stuff that requires replacement doesn't constitute an emergency. You can change the offending part when it is convenient. It is difficult to do this when you're also living in the thing. Mine is a best-case example. I bought an 82 motorhome that was cared for about as well as I could imagine. The previous owner had built an enclosed, heated barn to store it in. There were NONE of those niggling little problems that everyone seems to let slide. The rig had only 22k miles on it. Nonetheless, I've replaced almost everything that moves and a lot of stuff that doesn't in the time I've had it. I went into the deal knowing I'd have to do this, having vast experience with antique cars. I've never been left on the side of the road by a breakdown but for the first 6 months of ownership, I worked on it almost every night during the week. And before I took it out the first time, I changed tires, all hoses on the engine, all belts, the fuel pump, the alternator, the black water valve (sticky and leaking) and several window seals. I should have changed the water pump too but the front of the rig has to come off to access it so I'm gambling.... I don't really have any encouraging advice in that price range other than perhaps trying to secure a rental unit for the duration. You might find some outfit that would rent you a rig for around what you planned to spend. The major advantage of renting is that the rental company is normally responsible for maintenance and roadside care. John |
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