From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Ping Neon John
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:24:55 -0400
Message-ID: <ssgk23hat9irdlv30u5s21b9gjtsu8c9o3@4ax.com>

Yup.  Probably, someone let it sit with gas in it and the carb jets
are partially stopped up.  Get some Techron carb/fuel injector
cleaner.  It's the best that I've personally tested.  It is a more
concentrated solution of the detergent Chevron puts in their gas.

Mix it with about half and half gas.  Put just enough regular gas in
the genny to get it started and then add this mix.  Baby the choke and
maybe even restrict the carb air intake to keep it running.  If the
clog isn't too bad then it should clear up as the engine runs.  If
not, turn the engine off before all this mix runs out and let it sit
for awhile.  Try to restart.  If it won't restart on that mix then add
more gasoline and purge the carb's float bowl til fresh gas gets in.

If one or two sittin' cycles like this doesn't do the job then you'll
have to remove the carb and give it a good treatment with carb cleaner
and compressed air.  The Techron will usually work if the drying fuel
didn't actually corrode the carb.

Before you do this, check the valve clearances.  A tight intake valve
can make a mixture seem lean.  That's probably not a problem with a
genny this new but just in case.

When you remove the rocker cover, if the inside is very gunked up then
you might want to add some Marvel Mystery oil, run it for an hour and
then do a couple of oil changes to totally eliminate the gunk MMO
loosens.

I don't usually go for gunks and goop and mystery overhauls-in-a-can
but I've seen these two products work too many times not to use 'em.
MMO, in particular is an excellent crud solvent.  It's the active
ingredient in that $16 a can decarboning aerosol that Onan sells.

An aside, I was once given a 64 Olds F85 that was barely running on
about two cylinders.  I removed the lifter covers and had to dig with
a screwdriver to find the valve train.  I was going to junk the car
when my old mentor and second dad recommended I try MMO first.  I
dumped in a quart, cranked the thing and let it idle.  I watched the
oil pressure and whenever it dipped, I changed the filter, as it had
clogged up, adding more oil and MMO as necessary.

Slowly and amazingly the dead cylinders came to life one by one as the
MMO unstuck the lifters.  I let it idle until the oil filter quit
stopping up, changed the oil, ran it for an hour, changed the oil
again and called it done.  I could actually see rocker arms through
the oil filler.

Cleaned that baby up and sold it for $700, a LOT in early '70s
dollars.

Oh, back to the generator.  If the Techron doesn't work then before I
tore the thing down I'd try filling the carb with pure MMO and letting
it sit overnight.  Drain it and blow backwards through the main jet.
Canned air with a flex nozzle that can be bent to fit down the jet is
very handy.  Sometimes the Techron and/or MMO will loosen the gunk but
won't remove it.  It has to be blown out.

Tip for getting more out of your canned air.  Canned air is nothing
more than a refrigerant (usually 134a) in an aerosol can.  The
pressure depends on temperature.  When used the can quickly gets cold
and the pressure drops.

The solution is to heat the can ahead of time.  Turn the water on in
your sink as hot as you can stand.  Hold the can under the water,
shaking it vigorously to make sure the whole mass of liquid gets hot.
Your hand serves as a safety to make sure the can doesn't get too hot,
though some federal spec says they have to survive 140 deg F.  When
the can is as hot as  the water, go use it.  The pressure will be
amazing compared to ambient temperature.  If it cools off just heat it
again.

John

On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:35:13 -0700, "Frank Howell"
<fphowell@usermail.com> wrote:

>Hey John, I have a Yamaha 1000i, that is 2 years old and I just started it
>up yesterday for a test run. It starts up fine, but when I turn the choke
>off it dies.
>
>The ambient temp was about 60, and I ran it for about a 1/2 hour to see if
>that would change anything. If in the economy mode it will run for a while
>when I push the choke in, but eventually it dies. When on the full mode, and
>I push in the choke knob it dies immediately. I add some new gas, as it was
>almost empty,  but same results. I don't think these gens. were meant  to
>run with the choke on.
>Any Ideas?

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel
Subject: Re: Ping Neon John
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 18:40:51 -0400
Message-ID: <e14l23dl6hrgf1kkl6cb95s3jo6e34lc2f@4ax.com>

On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:05:10 -0700, "Frank Howell"
<fphowell@usermail.com> wrote:


>Thanks for the reply. I tried carb cleaner right into the carb, still the
>same problem. I am recluctant to remove carb, as there are a number of screw
>adjustments, that I might not be able to get back to original settings.
>
>The Techron you mention, is that the stuff that is normally put in the gas
>tank? If so, I will get some and put in tank per your instructions and see
>what happens.
>
>Thanks

Yes, the Techron comes in a plastic bottle with a long narrow neck
designed to fit through the lead-free gas restricter in your gas tank.

I've never had much luck with carb cleaner for internal problems. It's
difficult to get the spray where the problem actually is - in the
bottom of the float bowl.

You're probably going to end up having to remove the carb.  My
procedure works if the gas hasn't sat for too long but if it was in
there for a year or two then the bowl's probably corroded and/or
contains hard varnish.

Removing the carb should not be difficult.  Usually only two nuts
holding it on.  The manifold studs usually go all the way through the
carb and hold the air cleaner in place.  A gas line, a throttle
linkage and perhaps a choke linkage are the other attachments.

If you do have to remove the carb then the adjustment screws need to
come out for cleaning.  Before removing, simply turn the screw in
until it seats, counting the turns.  Write that down and then set each
back to where you found it.

Carb cleaner DOES work pretty well when the carb's apart so that it
can be sprayed down all the passages.  Try to spray in the reverse
direction from the normal flow.  Down and out the main jet.  From the
idle circuit discharge holes near the throttle blade back toward the
inlet, preferably with the idle mixture screw out.

If there is hard varnish in the carb bowl then it and the jets will
need a soaking in the dip-type carb cleaner.  I haven't bought any in
a few years but used to, the Berryman brand that contains cresylic
(sp?) acid (smells like creosote) is the best.  It'll eat carbon off
piston tops.  They made/make a one gallon paint can version that
contains a little dip basket.

If you can't find the Berryman's then soaking the parts overnight in a
cup of aerosol carb cleaner might work as well.  Methyl Chloride-based
paint remover is another option, though you have to watch it closely
to make sure you get it off before it dries.

John

From: John De Armond
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Trouble starting portable generator This 99.9% The cure PLSREAD!
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:13:12 -0500
Message-ID: <hevel3hof41cot7kue982cg5vk8bv8b9hu@4ax.com>

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:07:31 GMT, "Sammy bin Snoozin"
<SammyBinSnoozin@REyahooMOVE.com> wrote:

>Thanks Kole of Big Bear!
>
>First... you are one lucky feller to live in such a nice place.
>
>Thanks for info on the generator.  FYI, the generator was brand new last
>year. I filled it up and ran it only for 10 minutes or so.  Then shut it
>down and covered it for emergency use.  I didn't drain the gasoline, so I
>can see that might be a problem.  But why would the carburetor need to be
>rebuilt?  I don't remember seeing any non-metallic parts last time I did
>it (many years ago).

It won't need to be rebuilt. (I'll reserve my thoughts about parts changers for now)
Sitting for less than a year will have left a thick gunk in the float bowl that will
have to be removed but no parts will have been damaged.

If you're lucky you may not even have to remove the float bowl.  Get a can of aerosol
carb cleaner, preferably one with a snorkel tube.  Remove the float bowl drain plug
and drain the gunk.  Stick the tube up in the bowl and spray away.  Replace the plug
and spray down the fuel inlet tube.  Try to fill the bowl with cleaner.  Let it sit
for awhile.  Remove the plug again, drain the cleaner and with the plug out, spray
some more cleaner down the inlet tube to flush the remainder from the bowl.  Replace
the plug.

Drain the gas tank and replace with fresh fuel.  You can save the old fuel and mix it
a little at a time with fresh fuel, either for the generator or your car.  Too
expensive to toss out anymore!  Odds are, the generator will now crank.

If it still won't crank, remove the air cleaner so that you can see into the
carburetor.  Place your thumb (or palm if the opening is too large) firmly over the
carb inlet and crank a couple of times.  The engine might hit a lick or two.  If not,
remove your thumb and see if there is fuel in the intake.  It should be visible on
the carb throat floor.  Your thumb will probably also be wet with fuel.  If fuel is
present then the engine WILL eventually start.  It may be flooded or still lean but
it is getting fuel so just work with it.

If you don't get any fuel then the carb probably has to come off.  It's easier to
work on when off the engine.  Remove it from the engine.  Remove the float bowl.  If
the main jet will unscrew (some are now pressed in), remove it and inspect for gunk.
Spray with carb cleaner and blow with compressed air.  Blow BACKWARD through the jet.

If the jet is pressed in, you'll have to snake that cleaner tube into the jet from
the carb throat.  In all cases, you will want to spray backward against the normal
fuel flow to dislodge any crud that might be there.

If there is an idle mixture screw, first screw it all the way in, counting turns.
Write this number down so you can set it to the same number of turns upon reassembly.
The remove it.  Spray cleaner down the opening.  Find the idle mixture discharge
port, a small hole near the throttle plate, and spray cleaner back through that.  The
cleaner should come out the idle mixture screw hole and out a hole in the intake.
Blow these passages with compressed air.

If you see a significant amount of corrosion, a whitish or yellowish powdery
substance, then the carb may have to be replaced. Small amounts of corrosion are OK.
Just remove it with a small brass brush (or old toothbrush in a pinch) and make sure
all the residue is gone.

Once you get it running again, NEVER shut it off with the ignition switch at the end
of use.  Turn off the fuel valve and let it run out of gas.  If the float bowl drain
plug is easy to get to, crack it and let the last little bit of gas drain out.

If the lid fits tightly (most all do now because of EPA evaporative emissions
standards) then the gas in the tank will be OK for a year.  A shot of Stabil will
extend the life.

I suggest running the generator until the tank is empty.  Either that or drain the
tank into an air-tight gas can.  Mist some spray oil into the tank to prevent it from
rusting.  Then store it dry.  Keep the fuel in the air-tight gas can(s) until use.

In a tightly sealed gas can that is air-tight, gas will last for several years.  I've
converted my generators to take fuel from outboard motor fuel tanks.  The tanks are
air-tight, connect using a quick-couple and eliminate the requirement of pouring and
handling gasoline.  Just unhook the tank, haul it to the gas station and refill.

John