From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: Help how can I save my drowned Honda eu1000 Message-ID: <tb09tugqdtbbiom3hcr0mcbfclqq6mch12@4ax.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:23:53 -0500 There are really two separate issues - what the water does to the engine and what it does to the electronics. The engine is rather straightforward. Drain the oil, carb and gas. New oil, new gas and if there is any water present when you remove the spark plug, some oil in the plug hole. Turn it over a few times with the starter with the plug out to distribute the oil. Turn the whole generator upside down, sideways, etc to distribute the new oil on all the internal parts. The water in the electronics presents two separate problems - the water is conductive when it is still there and the residue left after it evaporates is also conductive. Heating the unit will get rid of the water but not the residue. If the electronics are potted, there will be no problem. There is, however, the problem of water getting in the windings and leaving the residue. There is the additional problem, since the alternator is inside the flywheel, of water being trapped against the stator and creating enough rust to lock the flywheel. The most immediate problem is to get rid of the water to stop the rust. heat the unit by whatever means are available. A hair dryer and a large bag, if nothing else is available. The unit should become very hot to the touch and should be held at that temperature for several hours. make sure there is no gas in the unit while heating. Take the oil filler out so that any water vapor inside the engine can escape. This stops the progress of damage but does not reverse any damage already caused nor does it address the conductive residue problem. Addressing these problems will require partial disassembly. Someone must inspect the electronics to see if they are potted or conformal coated. If not, the boards should be washed in pure grain alcohol (PGA)(Everclear from the liquor store) and then baked. The alternator windings should be inspected for residue and meggered to detect electrical leakage. If there is any, wash the windings in PGA and bake. Many honda connectors can trap water so I'd want to break open each connection and inspect for water. Again, washing with PGA and baking addresses the problem. Baking involves holding the part above the boiling point of water (212 deg F) for several hours. I use a large domestic oven in my shop for that purpose and bake at about 250 deg. Unless you can do this sort of work yourself, it may be cheaper to just replace the unit. If you're willing to replace the unit if necessary, then you can gamble and just do the engine stuff above, then heat the unit for a few hours and try it out. If it works, you got lucky. If not, then buy the new one. A little bit less of a gamble is to do the engine stuff, heat the unit for a few hours, then open the unit up and megger (or have someone megger) the alternator stator. If it passes muster, then the unit will likely work. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: Help how can I save my drowned Honda eu1000 Message-ID: <q8i9tus4dghcpqf86v3ajb5u436k4vklg8@4ax.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 05:19:37 -0500 On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:48:24 -0800 (PST), DonLampson@webtv.net (Guess Who?) wrote: > Neon > It's nice to see you back on the board again. I worried about those >twisters scattering your restaurant all over the state! It's horrible, >how much suffering, and loss, the recent storms caused back >there.................... That was a few counties over. We just happened to be out in that area on our first trip in my mom's new MH. Missed the tornados. Just got some gentle rocking of the rig and a LOT of rain.. > Unless those folks with the marinated Honda generator, have oodles of >time, they'd be better off buying a new genset. yep. > Too bad they can't trade it to you, on credit at the pig palace.... >You could probably turn the deal into another SMS merit badge, by >creating a machine out of it, that could make cole slaw - out of old >newspapers! :-) I HAVE been wanting to get my hands on an EU1000 with a defunct inverter. I want to install a different controller of my design to turn it into a quick charger for my EVs. I'm too SMS to actually buy a new one to hack on :-) Of course, the cole slaw chopper is an interesting alternative. Hmmm. From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: Help how can I save my drowned Honda eu1000 Message-ID: <g1h9tuksdn5l3flhdf2f5v300a9vnkltk7@4ax.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 05:13:24 -0500 On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 21:48:10 -0800, "Ben Hogland" <benhogland@hotmail.com> wrote: > >"Neon John" <johngdDONTYOUDARE@bellsouth.net> wrote in message >news:tb09tugqdtbbiom3hcr0mcbfclqq6mch12@4ax.com... >> Someone must inspect the electronics to see if they are potted or >> conformal coated. If not, the boards should be washed in pure grain >> alcohol (PGA)(Everclear from the liquor store) and then baked. > >Pure grain alcohol, eh? I have to disagree. I'd never seen the need to do >that and if anything that stands the possibility of ruining the laminate on >the boards. It is NOT normal procedure, industry wide, for cleaning residue >off boards. Residue can be conductive but that depends on the residue. Even >if it was sitting in dirty water, washing in soap and water is all I would >recommend. Chances are, it doesn't even need that. You know, Ben, I never post any procedure like that which I have not already used. Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about. There is, of course, no "industry wide cleaning standard". PGA is the standard for cleaning boards in the nuclear industry, particularly boards involving very high impedance circuits. I evaluated the various solvents for such board cleaning for TVA back in the 70s. PGA yielded the lowest leakage result of anything I tested, including the fancy freons that generally aren't available now. As for damaging the laminate, God, how can I keep from laughing? The worst part is recommending soap and water. This ain't no controlled environment PCB assembly line and the components don't still have their assembly seals. A little PGA inside a relay can or under a cap does no harm, in sharp contrast to what highly conductive soap residue would do. As important, if the standing water had an oil film on it (with a submerged generator? Banish the thought), soap and water would have little to no effect. Crazy advice. I have quite a bit of experience in recovering dunked generators by virtue of my moonlighting in my friend's electric motor shop. Said shop has the contract for the local utility. They tend to drop portable generators down in ditches filled with water, sewer, etc with alarming frequency. I outlined what we do in the shop (including cleaning with PGA, preceeded by stoddard solvent if the dunking involved a lot of grease) with one exception. We normally finish off a stator with a VPI dip-and-bake. I made a wild assed assumption that she'd not have the dip chambers and bake out ovens. I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong. Just out of curiosity, Ben, how many dunked gennys have you successfully repaired? > >Laurie, do yourself a favor, don't believe everything you read here on the >newsgroup. You're right on that point. Your post is a perfect example. >Best to take it to a dealer/shop for them to fix it up so you >don't take some wrong advice here and screw it up even worse... Reflecting on some of the stuff I've seen come out of local small engine shops, I can only shake my head and say "yaaaa, riiiight!" The least you could do if you're going to send her to a shop is to recommend an actual honda authorized repair depot that employs Honda trained and certified mechanics. John |
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