From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: The Mileage Miracle Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:57:51 -0400 Message-ID: <lcee7419brbq4v7nrvkhc1kn35p833vp5q@4ax.com> On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:58:00 -0500, Geoff Lane <geoff@nospam.invalid> wrote: >Lone Haranguer <linuszrv@gmail.com> wrote in >news:6dmok5F3c902U1@mid.individual.net: > >>> I repeat my earlier post. It is my experience that fuel savings can >>> be made by following two seconds behind a big rig at 90 km/h (56 >>> mph). In my case, the first time I tried it I got about a 12% >>> increase in mpg compared to maintaining the same speed without >>> "drafting". >> >> And some people think there is an acceptable risk when robbing banks. >> LZ > >You're confusing me here. What risk is involved in following two-seconds >behind a heavy? FYI, that's the government minimum recommended separation >over here. OK, let's say you're bopping along 2 seconds behind that semi up ahead at 60 mph. You're crossing that 29 mile stretch of I-10 in LA that crosses the swamp, is built on stilts and has no shoulders. There's a guy in the left lane creeping past you. Just as the guy in the left lane gets up even with you, out from under the semi pops a 15 ft length of 10" I-beam that dropped off a truck farther up ahead. The semi cleared it easily enough but his tire nicked the end of the beam and now it's skated sideways across your lane. What are you going to do? You can't react and stop in 2 seconds. There's no shoulder on the bridge so you can't go right. There's a car next to you so you can't go left. What ARE you going to do? I saw the remains of just about that scenario on that very stretch of highway. The I-beam was still in the road. The car was in the swamp 20 or 30 feet below. At least the parts that weren't still laying on the roadway. There was no ambulance present so either they'd already hauled the guy away or it was obvious that an ambulance would do him no good. I suspect the latter after seeing the damage to the car. Two seconds' following is fine when you're behind another car that you can see around and over. You can see what's going on ahead at the same time the car in front of you does. But 2 seconds behind a semi that blocks all forward view is a death wish in my book. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: The Mileage Miracle Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 05:49:44 -0400 Message-ID: <6bug74pvn1g1oskqt18b0u4i2d0a7r90ai@4ax.com> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:25:45 -0500, Geoff Lane <geoff@nospam.invalid> wrote: >If you meant that the I-beam was already stationary, it is unlikely that >the truck you're following wouldn't hit the brakes, and so you'd already be >on the anchors before the I-beam came into view. Again, the chances are >you'd miss it. Why do you think that I'd brake? I certainly don't and I'm the truck driver. I'm NOT going to swerve to avoid it, even if that means hitting it, because I know that a roll-over is MUCH more serious than a cut tire or two. At most, I'll lift the throttle and let my Jake scrub off some speed. That does NOT activate the brake lights. Besides, I'm following the vehicle in front of me at a sufficient distance that I have plenty of time to decide what to do and that includes stopping rapidly. If you're in my blind spot (you will be at 2 seconds back) then too bad for you. All you're doing now is trying to rationalize away that really stupid post you made. If you want to draft my semi 2 seconds back then more power to ya. Doesn't affect me a bit. The first time I straddle a dead deer or I-beam or tire or whatever and said object takes you out, that'll just be one less stupid car driver on the road that I'll have to dodge in the future. BTW, you'd be absolutely amazed at how fast a semi can stop in an emergency. We seldom use our brakes very hard because that causes unpleasant things like load shifts, but the brakes are there if we need 'em. If you're tailgating back there, this is what will happen. The trailer tandems unload from weight transfer and the air bag suspension lifts the rear end. Your little 4 wheeler slides right up under the dock bumper until your windshield hits and a second later, the trailer weight shifts back, the rear comes down and that dock bumper becomes a guillotine. Chop chop. John From: John De Armond Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel Subject: Re: The Mileage Miracle Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:22:08 -0400 Message-ID: <997i74919s2oo8e93tq0oricfma06hbpd0@4ax.com> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:48:40 -0400, Thats Me <yqcbbf@whab.pbz> wrote: >I was taught to scan the road, Near, ahead, near again, left mirror, >dash, right mirror, rinse and repeat. > >Two seconds is enough time for the average situation encountered on >the road but for those that do not scan ahead the situation will be on >them before they can adjust for changing road situations. I agree with you and the guide about the 2 second rule AS LONG AS YOU CAN SEE AHEAD OF THE NEXT VEHICLE! That's the critical part. That condition doesn't exist with a semi, a large coach or a bus. I'll come clean here, I used to be a drafter in my foolish youth. I'd sometimes get close enough to read the brand name on the dock bumper. I also got the tee-total sh*t scared out of me and some damage done to my car. "Duh, dumbass", I says to myself, "Wake up and smell the coffee". I spent a lot more time back at a more "reasonable" distance, on the order of what we're talking about now. I STILL had the crap scared out of me by road debris. Following a large vehicle like that causes a mesmerizing effect. It does to me, at least and I suspect that I'm not unique. You get in the zone staring at the same thing - the back of the truck - mile after mile. The same thing can happen driving a semi and using the industry-recommended truck-length-per-10-mph following distance. (I didn't stay that far back because the effort was futile. Some other vehicle would plug the gap. But on the interstate my following distance was more like 3-4 truck lengths.) It takes a certain amount of time to come out of that state when something happens - GPS beeps that your exit is upon you, blue lights appear in the distance, debris comes from under the truck ahead, etc. That time has to be figured into a person's "normal" reaction time. I've been in just that situation during my foolish drafting days and not just when I was kissing the dock bumper. An interstate gator pops from under the truck you're drafting. Your lizard brain that is doing the driving sees it but it takes a second for the image to make its way to your conscious self. Only then can you react. I was lucky that the gator wasn't a whole wheel's worth and that it slid over toward the shoulder enough that my feeble evasive maneuver was enough. Well, I've said more than enough on the subject. I just hate to see stupidity presented as something to be proud of or emulated, as our canuck poster did. I'll shut up now. John |